Curse

gene terrodon · Jul 02, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

1. Announce on the chat...
"Fast Faction: Kurzick quit on Odd, Luxon's on Even"
2. Roll the dice.
3. Quit if you're Luxon and an even; Kurzick if you're odd.

Self serving and lazy suggestion.
If you are too lazy to AB, farm faction elsewhere.
This will only further ruin AB.

Rocky Raccoon · Jul 02, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

You should be glad you are getting anything for losing. I think it should be winner take all and increase it to 2500 per win. The losers just earn Balthazar faction

TabascoSauce · Jul 02, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

You should be glad you are getting anything for losing.

The PvE community has shown that it does not care for disorganized, player-competitive, inefficient win/lose situations.

Don't believe me?

Try Wintersday. Districts were agreed upon - Even Dwayna, Odd Grenth IIRC. That was a situation that the community made vastly more efficient for getting the hats. Why should we compete against eachother when we can all agree and win? We spared ourselves the competitive drama for.......what?

....a frickin hat?

So, when ANet gives us a grindfest totally stacked for the winners, that we can double the efficiency with a simple agreement?

That is a no-brainer.

Now, I may be reaching here, but dont you think that 10 million maxxed is a bit extreme? Even you are proposing that the reward be increased. Hmmmmm.

The only way this can be solved by ANet is to alter the reward payoff. Reward everyone. That will make it more efficient to play through the game win or lose, than quit.

Of course when they give us a situation that we can optimize, then you betcha we're gonna optimize. There is no reason to play the game their way. Their way, currently, sucks.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Wolfcp11 · Jul 02, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

"Two wrongs don't make a right?"

-1 * -1 = 1

MSecorsky · Jul 02, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Here's the thing... if I have to wait ten minutes to get into a game I don't give a fried rats arse what anyone rolls. I'm staying for my fun. Winning is nice, the faction is nice, but I AB for a little un-winding type of fun when I don't have a lot of time to burn (for vanquishing, whatever). I don't care how many leave... I'm staying and trying.

Zeek Aran · Jul 02, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

At 10 million faction to get to the top, I think that 5000 reward is chump change, for all of you who say that is too generous.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Dear Sauce:

Maxed titles are NOT in ANY WAY needed for skills that are... NOT NEEDED, and are JUST FINE at r5 or even r1. Maxed titles should not be easy to get. Maxed titles are made for people who work hard and for many hours to get. You don't need 10 million faction to have fun and PLAY THE GAME.

King's Spectre · Jul 02, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

You should be glad you are getting anything for losing. I think it should be winner take all and increase it to 2500 per win. The losers just earn Balthazar faction

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Enjoy your extra faction when you're anywhere but Saltspray.

Ensign · Jul 02, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

Leaving is contagious.

That's the crux of the issue. Everyone has their own threshold. A lot of people load into FA and see an AFK and don't care, at least don't care enough to quit (you can't or you quit the format entirely). That's different when you see 2 or 3 AFKs. A lot more people will decide a match with 5 or 6 people is a waste of time than one with 7, and quit out of the match. At which point you're fighting with 4 people, which is an even lower threshold...etc. After a point it doesn't matter whether you stay or not, as a crushing defeat is pretty much inevitable.

Win trading was actually a single state equilibrium strategy before the updates. However it requires a critical density of players to get going, and the terms of the battle were fair enough that people never really considered it. Now, between a *laughable* faction reward for sticking out a losing match, and an increased (perceived) need to gain faction from the faction grind skills - and the increase in AFK farm teams in response to that - the payoffs have changed, and the idea of mailing in a percentage of your matches for fast wins becomes more appealing.

How many people win trading do you need in a match to make it a real determinant of outcome? I'm sure a single team on each side using the strategy would be sufficient - I don't have a lot of experience winning matches 8v12. Hopefully we won't find out, though, as Arena.net fixes their game before it becomes an issue.

TabascoSauce · Jul 02, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Dear Zeek:

Um, the minimum is 100 thousand. Hmmmm. Lets take an obvious road here.

Battle of the Houses = 400 faction. Doubled with an alliance donation = 800 effective per match.

100,000/800 =125 matches.

Doesnt sound so bad?

Each one takes 5 minutes, at 12 per hour = 10 hours to even get access to the skill.......?

I reference 10 million because its soo insanely crazy. But the song remains the same at 100 thousand to even get the skill.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

CDittric77 · Jul 02, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

The dice suggestion is not one that I find relevent - the concern, as GG mentioned is with leechers and leavers and in some ways, the amount of faction you receive upon losing. A slight alteration in rewards for the losers and a strategy to deal with leechers and AB is right back on top.

Go ANet!

Zeek Aran · Jul 02, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Doesnt sound so bad?

Each one takes 5 minutes, at 12 per hour = 10 hours to even get access to the skill.......?

No one complained about this BEFORE faction was doubled making it twice as easy to earn. Two hours for fives days and you have 100k. That's easy.

TheRaven · Jul 02, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I think the idea regarding rolling or not is pointless. Even forgetting the discussion about whether or not it's cheating or perfectly ok, in order to work you have to get 24 people to agree to abide by the roll decision for this to work. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!

Blackest Rose · Jul 02, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I'm a pure PVE player - I don't like PVP of any type.

But Anet continues to tie them closer together more and more.

WHY!?!

If it isn't favor then it's now Faction. WAKE UP ANET!

I had no problem getting LB/SS points and getting skills related to them - because they're part of PVE

Faction is more PVP based (PVE faction earning is a joke) and your reward for doing tons of it - a PVE skill!?!

I have finished factions mulitple times on my many toons and each and every one has the absolute bare minimum of faction in order to progess the plot.

Double weekend of faction - woot - I didn't play a single game of AB/FA/JQ or anything PVP related.

I'm sick and tired of PVE dependant on PVP.....sigh

PS I applaud the OP for trying to cheat a fundamentally flawed system.

prism2525 · Jul 02, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

10 mil aren't there to be achieved in a day you know.

TabascoSauce · Jul 02, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Zeek, your rosy portrayal of easy living for faction farming to the hundreds of thousands (or millions) is slightly at odds with what is happening in the community and the game.

You are talking to the wrong audience. I think your time would be better spent educating players in the game as to why their leeching and/or quitting strategies are not optimal, in your opinion of course.

That is - if and only if - you can get them to pay attention to you because they are too busy leeching and/or quitting.

If you want to portray the situation as rosy, then you need to go online and see the situation firsthand - it is not rosy.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

D8tura · Jul 02, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I think the roll is a brilliant idea. I'm all for it until there is a leecher fix.

After playing the jade arena numerous times till i thought I would go mad this weekend, I played on a favored map and kept winning although I lost a few times. The faction reward was greater for winning in AB than the repeatable quests. Don't give me "there are quests to give you faction" crap. I spent all weekend trying different solutions and AB is the best gain. You can't blame people for coming up with these solutions, Anet. I used to AB for fun. It's no longer fun because it's an obligation to make a skill stronger and you must do it to get the fastest faction. This means putting up with a bunch of people who are ruthless to win and immature people who cheat or leech. I'd rather do the suggestion above and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say the grind to enhance these skills is totally unnecessary.

Series · Jul 02, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

I think the idea regarding rolling or not is pointless. Even forgetting the discussion about whether or not it's cheating or perfectly ok, in order to work you have to get 24 people to agree to abide by the roll decision for this to work. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!

You don't need 24 people to agree. Lets say 4 people agree to it and leave. That's 12 vs 8. The 8 people can either put up a fight for a few minutes and lose, or just accept that they should leave. If you want to be the hero and go 1 on 12 because you refuse to leave on a roll... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!

BeowulfKamdas · Jul 02, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

some people play for fun, others for reward

too bad we all can't get along

King's Spectre · Jul 02, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I hate the idea of rolling an AB game, I'd much rather the format be repaired, but a question:

Which of the 24 gets to roll?

ockhams · Jul 02, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

these are some ideas people have posted a number of times. i will post them again so the devs get the idea that these are popular (and somewhat simple) changes to introduce...

LEAVERS
i will ignore leavers because if the leechers get sorted out there are still legitimate reasons to leave and they should not be punished. although i read someone say that a 15 minute ban on faction gain would be helpful; however, what if you err 007 or something? what if a whole server crashes? seems like a shitty idea ultimately.

LEECHERS
detecting a player that does nothing for the match (i.e. does not move or use a skill) that individual player should gain NO REWARD regardless of what the rest of his team gains. fantastic idea! even if it encourages leechers to move into using bots because bot use is explicitly cheating and can justifiably lead to the banning of your account. at the same time, if you legitimately lagged for an entire match, lol, and were unable to do anything to help your alliance, you should gain NO REWARD!

even if someone has a bot program continually joining 4 leechers to your alliance, Anet should eventually ban those accounts that use any sort of bot in AB and let those assholes who try to farm afk try to levy a pathetic petition to have their account reinstated. banning them permanently will cause them to lose all the shit towards the title they thought they would gain by cheating. and by forcing either legitimate play or the use of a spam-bot you will either have a reasonably full team or else players who will risk getting banned.

FOR NOW
for the time being if you have a leecher in your group, kick the bastard after the match and carry on. they will gain a very small amount of faction for their effort (or lack there of) but then will not be a problem for people for the rest of the matches you participate in. try something as simple as talking to your party in between matches and/or watching if someone is standing still at the rez shrine in your particular group. that would ease a lot of the burden on Anet.

ORIGINAL POST
i think trying to convince people to rig AB by uniformly leaving as an alliance is a stupid idea. sure its convenient for faction farming, but really most people play AB because it is fun. just joining and leaving is not fun. go do a solo quest if you think AB is beyond repair. don't try to ruin it for everyone else who enjoys the battle-type.